User blog:Aquamarinesandopals/address to issues: discord, the wiki, and community

theres been some issues irt community on the discord and this very long message was drawn up in regards to it. while it is about the discord and etiquette in a big group chat, it is being posted here for ease and as a reminder to users on the website too that community is important.

comments and interactions with other users have gone way down, its incredibly sad. please dont forget that while we are all here to be getting attention and sharing, someone needs to be giving it back.

as was said in the discord, we expect all users to read this and to comment a compliment for a non otm winning oc to prove they have. users on the discord must also react to the discord message with a paella.

here is a link to a google doc with the same message so you can read that if reading it on the discord/wiki is difficult.

introduction
hello everyone, spades here!

this is going to be a long post, but i would like to emphasise how important the admins feel it is to the site and users that it is read.

the wiki has been around for 6 years this july and the ffc will be coming up for its 3 year anniversary this november. needless to say, the site and chat have changed a considerable amount in that time. we pride ourselves on how we have adapted and changed; in a show that is long dead we are so proud that our site and chat continue to be one of a few active platforms for the fandom.

however, the admin team has long felt that moving the chat offsite (and to discord in turn) has had ramifications that are harmful to the community. for a number of users, admins who have noticed and users who have expressed concern, it has reached a boiling point. the goal of this message is to articulate the issues expressed to us by users and to encourage users to rethink how they are approaching the chat.

the address is divided into two sections for ease, here is part one.

part 1
this chat is intended to be a friendly space for members of our site to talk and chat about their characters, ever after high, fairytales, and irl matters and interests. the chat is not tailored to any one person, we need the chat to remain a space where everyone feels able to contribute and speak. this means a few things:


 * 1) your experience in this chat should not be about you

while we understand that, naturally, everyone does want to talk about their own interests, ocs, ideas, etc. '''it is incredibly rude to never engage with other peoples conversations and to only post about what you deem interesting. '''this has become an issue as it has increasingly led to chats being posted over. here, chats being “posted over” means conversations in a lull being ended by someone coming in and imposing their desired conversation. this is especially concerning if a user seldom makes an effort to talk to others about things unrelated to their own interests (or ocs, stories, art, etc).

as harsh as it is to say, '''if you want people to be genuinely engaged with what you want to say, you should try to be genuinely engaged in what others have to say. communities are a two way street.'''


 * 1.1) please have courtesy 

if you do want to post something new in the chat, unrelated to what was just said, it isnt hard to give a quick two second comment, even if its just a “: o” or “asdfgh” or “oh cool!”. this should especially be taken into consideration if the person above never got any replies.

we cannot and will not make this mandatory (outside selected channels), but the admin team strongly feels that it is not hard to be considerate and to make sure no one feels talked over or ignored (which is a big risk in such an active chat).

it is common internet courtesy to wait 10-30 minutes before changing a conversation, but the issue with simply asking you to wait 10-30 minutes is that it implies conversations always die after 10 minutes.

many users do not want to talk in a super fast paced environment and find such intimidating; many get distracted irl and arent able to reply within 10 minutes. read the room, as it were. if a conversation is obviously over after 5 minutes, youre free to post. if a conversation hasnt been touched in 30 minutes and its clearly midway through, there is no harm in asking if you can say smth unrelated, giving it another wee while, posting in another applicable channel, or just waiting until youre sure it is over.


 * 2) please follow the rules

it has long been a rule that if you are posting in #art or #selfies you should take two minutes, if that, to '''compliment the person above you. '''we do this because these channels are so self focused. no one posts a selfie or art and doesnt want a compliment on it. refusing (or not thinking) to compliment others while implicitly asking for them yourself is incredibly rude.

( of note, from today onward #fanfics is included in this rule. )

you do not have to compliment every single person who has sent art before you. if you want to, you absolutely should, its incredibly sweet. but, if there are 20 pieces of art you do not have to compliment everyone. just '''make sure you are appreciating and not ignoring your fellow users. '''

above all else, try to be genuine. dont treat the compliment as something you need to get out the way so you can get attention without breaking rules

this chat was founded on the basis of making talking about ocs easier. caides goal with the original skype group was to have a place for brainstorming where logs could be saved, unlike the site, and one of the great things about discord is it allows 100s of these conversations to be happening at the same time. this is all without mentioning that, despite the fact this has become a friend group of sorts, '''this chat is specifically intended to be for our website. '''
 * 3) please actually post about ever after ocs

please make sure you are engaging with our site and engaging with ocs in the chat, even if you dont have anything to post about your own ocs. your contribution of non eah things / mattel things shouldnt be higher than your contribution of things site related. youre never going to be in trouble for using the gaming channel a lot, but if you only ever post in the gaming channel it might be worth reconsidering if you really want to be in an eah oc chat.

once again, we cant police this and have no plans to. we just ask that users are courteous and remember the goals of people in the chat outside of themselves.

part 2

 * 1) derailing/joking at the expense of others

if you have nothing to say, thats fine, please dont feel you need to bend the chat so that you can say something. if someone is seriously trying to talk about something (eg asking for help, wanting to brainstorm), it is incredibly rude to hop into their replies, joke about, and then leave when they try and bring up the serious thing again. if you do not plan to help them, do not make jokes off of their back.

have fun, make jokes, but dont talk over and derail conversations to get to that point. no one wants to be the person who was ignored to make that happen.

'''furthermore, you do not need to insert yourself or your ocs into every conversation. '''we understand the excitement, not to mention, this is a chat for talking about ocs! we want you to feel free to do that! but, that doesnt mean you should be waiting for the moment to talk about yours. '''take time to listen to what people have to say too. conversations, even very large fairytale franchise based ones, involve both listening and talking.'''


 * 2) copying/inspiration

this is rather a long one, im afraid, because i rly dont want to imply that you should be scared to do things similarly to others, or that inspiration is bad.

being able to be inspired by other like-minded people is, and will always be, a key draw of communities like ours. i struggle to think of a user who doesnt have an oc inspired by another, or who would be able to claim that they were the sole contributor and creator of every element in a given oc.

this being said, in such a big, fast paced chat, we must be careful that we are, once again, appreciating and enjoying others content. while it is fine to be inspired, do not make that the sole benefit of being in a chat with others. ideas are not free for the taking just because they were said in public. a message a la, “hey i love your x and i was really inspired to do something, you dont mind do you?” is by no means necessary, but hugely appreciated by nearly everyone.

taking inspiration should be done respectfully, and not used to undermine the original person who inspired you. so, try to make sure that if inspired, you have engaged with and enjoyed the thing youre inspired by and have expressed that in a genuine way, not as a means to an end. everyone likes to be appreciated, and if you are going to be using ideas taken, in part, from other people, appreciating the ideas should be standard.

( as a quick aside, dont beat around the bush with being inspired. pretending you werent inspired or otherwise acting sheepish isnt necessary. no one minds causing inspiration to strike, fundamentally, i promise. )

furthermore, please try to check you arent copying things implicitly. we have had cases in the past of entire oc and ship names being blatantly stolen from other users.

'''naturally, coincidentally having the same name as another oc (or having the same ship name) is not a crime. we do not want users to become overly concerned about this.''' as has been said before, some names just arent that creative (which is 100% not an insult) and are a natural result of the fairytale role. weve had several repeat ship names (or very similar ones) because some motifs fit a lot of ocs. this is more than fine! no one involved with the ships sea glass, glass skies, stained glass (1), and stained glass (2) got in trouble. angeline patchwork (2) has never and will never come under fire for sharing a name with angeline patchwork (1).

'''we do not want to restart the phase of people feeling that they can only touch things that have never been used. we just want to emphasise that we should all be careful and make sure we arent copying others. if you feel something is too close for comfort or you genuinely have been inspired by someone/want to riff off someones idea, it really doesnt hurt to ask them about it.''' this applies to outfits, names (oc and ship), roles, stories, plot, page layout, literally everything. if you saw it and thought “id like to do that/im gonna do that”, it applies.

remember, said in the chat =/= free for you to use


 * 3) jumping off of other peoples ideas

'''if someone is discussing or introducing a new character concept, immediately talking about your own oc of the same role; immediately talking about your oc with a similar personality; or using that concept to create your own concept straight away etc. feels nothing short of undermining. '''

we cant pretend that attention and validation arent major parts of sharing a concept. jumping off of someone elses things, especially without giving them the time of day, throws them under the bus in order to promote yourself. anyone who has been on the receiving end of this can affirm that it instantly decreases motivation for the character/concept and can make you feel unoriginal, not to mention, unable to share for fear of being talked over or used as someone elses idea generator. it implicitly tells the user that you dont care about what they have to say unless it can benefit you.

it is fine to want to share, discussing oc similarities can be lots of fun and lead to great rps and character interactions. but other people are not your springboard, your first thought upon hearing someone elses idea should not be “how can i use that idea”/”how can i talk about myself based on what theyve said”. people tend to not want to engage with someone who talks over them or riffs off their ideas the second theyre offered.

we completely understand the enthusiasm about sharing your own ocs, but remember that you arent the only one with that enthusiasm. in a chat with 33 people keen to be listened to, someone has to be listening. it should be all of us.

part 3
what we want you to take away from this is that respect is important for the functioning of a site.

while we always reassure users that everything they say wont always be answered because people do not owe you a reply (nor should they feel forced to reply to things they arent interested in), it should never get to a point where users feel unable to share.

sadly, for many, it has become that. '''complaints that the server now feels competitive, too fast, overwhelming, and stifling are concerning to us. '''frankly, i hope they concern users too. i dont like to think that anyone feels this way about our chat, i hope that no one else wants others to feel that way.

the nature of discord, unlike skype before it, lends itself to being quick, easy, and fast. you can easily ignore things you dont like and focus on what you do. in the midst of that, we need to make sure that we find time to listen, genuinely, and be interested in what others have to say. it seems that for too many, “ignoring things you dont like” has become “ignoring others unless i can talk about me as a result of it”.

you cannot expect other people to listen, want to engage with you, be invested in your stories and characters and heck, even your interests, if you do not give anyone else that justice. people are not here to hear solely about you, '''people are here to share and listen and be a part of a community. t'''alking about yourself, your ideas, your ocs, your interests is a vital part of that, but listening to their ideas, ocs, and interests is too.

we appreciate that some things in here may seem oddly specific, so if you are confused please do privately message me, im more than happy to provide examples. i want everyone to be able to be clear on the issue, as its becoming rather wide spread. (which is why we are asking you react in two places if present in the discord, to make sure this is categorically and completely understood.)

please note: ''we have talked to many different individuals about many of these points before. this is not a call out to one specific user, nor is anything here something that only one person has done. this is without mentioning that even members of the admin and mod team are guilty of many of the things on this list.''

the goal here is not to indirectly shame anyone but to remind all users of things that most users are doing stuff which is upsetting a large number of users.

there we go, theres the end! as said, please leave a comment complimenting a non otm winning oc if you have read and understood. if youre in the discord, please react to the message about this with the paella emoji.