• So I've been wanting to make a thread on this subject for a while: A safe space to discuss general LGBTQIA+ (Lesbian, Gay, Bi, Transgender, Queer, Inter-sex, and Asexual) topics regarding Ever After High headcanons, ships, and our OCs!

    Now I know that, depending on your knowledge, this may seem like a broad topic. To help produce discussing, have some semi-specific, nifty bullet points to help generat some conversational goodness:

    • So, which characters do you headcanon as a specific sexual/romantic orientation (or lack there of, because ace/aromantic)?
    • Any particular same-gender ships you support for whatever reason? Or with no logical reason? I mean people ship straight ships for no reason other than being "cute" all the time, so there shouldn't be any shame.
    • What about canon characters and transgender headcanons? Is there anyone you headcanon as non-binary?
    • Because not all ships have to be between two people, are there any 3+ canon characters you ship in the polyamourous sense?
    • Not all strong emotional bonds are neccesarily romantic. What about headcanons involving canon characters in a queerplatonic relationship? To learn more about what this means, click here for an FAQ on the subject!

    On the topic of OCs:

    • If you have EAH OCs that aren't straight/cis/non-romantic, does their gender, sexuality, and/or (lack of) romantic interests affect how they view their story and parent's legacy? Or is it not a big deal at all?
    • Are they in the closet, so to speak, or is their sexuality/gender out in the open? Or perhaps, do they trust specific people with this information, and who?
    • Are their parent(s) in on it, or are they kept clueless? Are they/would they be supportive with this knowledge? Heck, is their parent(s) somewhere within the quiltbag spectrum (hey, you never know)?
    • Are their any ships you have for your queer character(s), or are there possibly any that you're considering? Are they mutual or one-sided? Romantic or queerplatonic?
    • Sexual orientation/attraction isn't exclusively the same as romantic orientation/attraction. Are there any OCs of yours whose sexual orientation differs from their romantic orientation?
    • Regardless of your OC's gender and sexuality (whether or not they fit any letters in the quiltbag acronym), what are your OCs' stances on LGBTQIA+ related subjects? Supportive? Appathetic? If cis and/or straight, is your OC an ally?

    A note on the last bullet point above: Keep in mind that the opinion an OC has on this subject may differ from the poster's opinion, whether or not an OC is narrow-minded. That being said, be mindful of those who could be triggered and please, no homophobic/transphobic/acephobic slurs. 

    (Though on the subject of "queer": it can and certainly has been a slur depending on the context, but in this case of a certain abbreviation, it can also be used as a reclaimed, catch-all term for quiltbag, lgbt+, and other terms/acronyms. If you're unsure how to use it, it's probably for the best that you don't.)

    And last but not least, a little something that pertains to both:

    • Are their any particular tropes, literary devices, and stereotypes regarding the LGBTGIA+ community that you want to discuss, would rather not perpetuate, are wanting to avoid, or want to subvert/play with regarding headcanons/ships/OCs?  Any headcanons that bother you when it comes to the more harmful stereotypes that crop up in mainstream media?

    Also, feel free to come up with more on-topic questions, ask for fic/OC help as long as it fits with the tiopic, and anything that can relate to the subjects at hand

    Since this can be a touchy subject, I'm urging folks to be respectful of each other throughout the conversation. There may be some terms mentioned that you or others might not be familliar with, and in that case we are here to help educate (as long folks are open-minded and we are quick to correct our mistakes and blunders). Try not to stray too far off topic, and if things get out of hand then I will close the thread indefinitely.

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      But before I post anything actually constructive, I will say one thing:

      Trans boy Hopper. Discuss.

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    • That's interesting, I'd like to participate on this one. I think that'll be fun to know about everyone's opinions.

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    • I tried to avoid stereotypes as much as I can with Jonas Rätsel and Valdemar Kuffert. (Some troll complained about Jonas, but I wasn't daunted.) Valdemar doesn't even have a boyfriend as of this writing. With Valdemar and his roommate Ari Lutin (who is not gay), I played with the common stereotypes by making Valdemar the more plainly-dressed one and Ari the flamboyantly-dressed one.

      It was hard for me to create a non-straight OC who was a Royal, so I had to choose a story without romance to do a story for. Also, at first I was hesitant to make Jane Jinjur a lesbian since Jinjur is a female soldier. But if anything, Jane isn't too interested in weapons and instead focuses on dairy farming.

      One headcanon that bothers me with fandoms in general is that the pretty male characters are always shoved into yaoi relationships (the tough-looking guys get it too, but it's usally the pretty boys who are turned into sobbing ukes). Any fandom that has anime-style artwork probably has the worst of this. In the Pokemon fandom, Morty, one of my favorite characters, has been a victim of this due to having long blond hair and lots of purple in his outfit. I've probably found more yaoi fics with him than het fics. There's plenty of gay men who aren't delicate-looking in the slightest. My problem with yaoi is that it's unrealistic in its depiction of gay male relationships.

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    • I have an aromantic character who struggles to prove herself since all about her is sensual and/or sexual, The Azul Beard. Just the sound of her voice is enough to have guys proposing to her, she can't stop her hips from struting and has heir-flipping emo bangs.

      I agree with the pretty boy thing. Really, just because a guy looks pretty, doesn't mean he's uke, he can just be a very cute seme and no one will never tell. 

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    • Most of my OCs are queer (I'm going to use queer because it's easier for me to type, plus, I am queer, and the q slur is reclaimed where I live so I'm comfortable using it.), and I don't think I'm really affected by stereotypes when I plan them and write them. However, one thing that I am affected by is my own life experiences, which I try to work into my OCs.

      For example, I'm bisexual. I'm not "out". I'm out to a few of my friends, the internet, but I'm not going to out myself to my parents until 18 and at university. This is mainly for my own safety, because I want to make sure I'm in a safe place before I get their reaction to my queerness. Two of my characters are bisexual (and like me, they both happen to be people of colour) – Avian Juniper and Chaoxiang Ma.

      Avian's out to his parents, who accept him, and who are totally alright with it – because hey, they were an interracial couple in a time when it was frowned on, and they know what it's like to be treated differently in a bad way because of what person you're with and who you are. Avian's situation is what I would like my ideal situation to be, and in a way, it serves as an escape. I can't be bisexual openly, I can't express my bisexuality safety, but when I write Avian, I can.

      Chaoxiang's in my situation. He's realised he's not straight. Like, he's attracted to guys. And girls. And people who are neither. And he's done some research, he's looked stuff up, and decided firmly that he's bisexual. But he knows that his parents wouldn't be okay with it, and he's in a bit of a panic state. On one hand, he wants to accept who he is and move on. On the other, he wishes that he wasn't bisexual, because he would have one less thing to worry about. On top of that, he already feels a lot of parental pressure on his destiny. This is probably one of the driving forces on why he's a Royal. He loves his family, and doesn't want to be separated from them. But he knows he has to prove himself worthy before he comes out to make sure he'll still be accepted. That's exactly how I feel, and that's one of the reasons why I identity so much with Chao.

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    • ~loves on everybody's contributations so far - keep it up!~

      Headcanon-wise, although I do admit to being a shameless Apple/Raven shipper (they certainly have parallels to Elphaba and Glinda from a certain musical), I've been musing a lot on the idea of Apple either being asexual or aromantic (or both even). Perhaps it's possible that, while she wants Daring to be her prince charming for the sake of her Happily-Ever-After, she's in "love" with the idea of having a happily-ever-after to the point that she's completely blind to the fact that she honestly lacks the capability to love her next Prince Charming (in a romantic way)? Not sure if this makes sense, but I could see it.

      Also, I've seen a number of people propose that Maddie might be pansexual. While it's not a bad thing per say, I've noticed a weird trend where any character that is quirky/eccentric/out-there is automatically headcanoned as pan. It bothers me some since pansexuality is often "othered" as it is, and while I don't mean to speak over folks who are, it gets pretty old.

      At one point a friend of mine said that Maddie's ring could be an ace ring . Food for thought?

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    • I believe that few people are completely straight or completely gay. There's a scale known as the Kinsey scale. I consider myself a 2 on the scale. While I would prefer to date girls, sometimes I find myself attracted to other guys. One of my celebrity crushes is Nate Ruess.

      The reason why I try to downplay stereotypes with my LGBT OCs is because I know that it's wrong to stereotype based on sexuality.

      On the topic of interracial couples, I have a lot of them with my OCs. I figured why not since they're quite common these days.

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    • As for interracial couples, I totally support them being child of one myself. Not just because of this, but, why not, right?

      On the LGBTQIA topic, I have two extremely homophobic OCs, not only they don't accept homossexuality, they just don't accept anything that diverts from heterossexuality (i.e. assexuality, pansexuality...). They are Navy and Davy Hook, they were raised to think of it as "bad form".

      I totally agree with Apple's asexual and/or aromantic headcanon. I just can't see she actually loving someone, she's more of the In Love With Love and Loving A Shadow tropes.    

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    • I've got a few OCs who are the children of an interracial couple, such as Klara Spiegel, Avian Juniper and Pythia Glycon. Pythia also happens to be the adopted daughter of a same-sex couple, so she calls the mother's whose destiny she's taken "mum" and the other "mom" or "mama".

      I think the Kinsey Scale is really outdated. Like, it doesn't taken into account pansexuals or asexuals, and it's based off a very cissexist, binary system. Personally, I don't like Kinsey, but I suppose it makes sexuality a little easier to understand. 

      And I'm totally up for ace Apple! I think she's the person who romanticises love, and has this ideal image that's impossible to achieve. And is it any sort of coincidence that she and Daring happen to look like the ideal couple media portrays? A white woman and a white man who both happen to be cisgender. 

      Next week is Aromantic Awareness Week, so I think we should start talking about characters that we headcanon as aro, grey-aro, or demiaro! I've got one, Airmid Valerian, who's the next physician from Godfather Death. I think she's somewhere on the spectrum, but I'm not really sure. I'm still kinda working out her sexuality. It's kinda an ironic factor because she's supposed to die in her tale after saving a princess she loves that she's not supposed to save, but it also stems from the fact that I really can't see her falling in love? I'm not sure.

      Do any of you have any characters on the aro-spectrum? Or any ace characters?

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    • Well, I wanted to make Squrriel Nutkin's, two, of many daughters(and half sisters, Nutkin is so a player, he never commits. Also a collab with MeredithAgnesPoe) thiny veild they are into eachother. (orginally they met as little girls, at some family reunion, or other. They quickly got the nickname " the Twins" as they are never without the other)

      So that makes their coupling half sibling/les incest, If that can be allowed? Either way they can't reproduce, both being girls. Meaning there is no real harm for incest to happen, in this case?. Since people shun the M/F incest couplings, as it leads to  reproduction. The real taboo of incest. And they are the same age (one being older by a few months to a year), and willing. They are both equals,  there is no mental wicked mind games bewteen them, like an older person could do. Their love is true and very innocent. The two girls were rised not knowing better.

      I see the two girls always believed themselfs to not be highly-sexed like the other teenagers around them. They saw all diffent kinds of couples, gay, stright the fetishes and strange alures others have/had to interracial couple, ect...They merely watched from the side lines, not impressed nor judgement, just nothing.  Then one day it clicks, and they realize they are in love with eachother. When for laughs they played the "kissing game", wondering why girls played this kind of game at sleepovers, and well..the rest is history. But they are still not in a sexual relationship, besdies the open public cuddling and kiss, or two.

      Surely I know this is a no go...But this(that) was my idea.

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    • Flamette
      Flamette removed this reply because:
      This isn't a rant blog, I should have not wrote all this. This isn't on track to our topic.
      10:25, November 9, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • Flamette wrote:
      Well, I wanted to make Squrriel Nutkin's, two, of many daughters(and half sisters, Nutkin is so a player, he never commits. Also a collab with MeredithAgnesPoe) thiny veild they are into eachother. (orginally they met as little girls, at some family reunion, or other. They quickly got the nickname " the Twins" as they are never without the other)

      So that makes their coupling half sibling/les incest, If that can be allowed? Either way they can't reproduce, both being girls. Meaning there is no real harm for incest to happen, in this case?. Since people shun the M/F incest couplings, as it leads to  reproduction. The real taboo of incest. And they are the same age (one being older by a few months to a year), and willing. They are both equals,  there is no mental wicked mind games bewteen them, like an older person could do. Their love is true and very innocent. The two girls were rised not knowing better.

      I see the two girls always believed themselfs to not be highly-sexed like the other teenagers around them. They saw all diffent kinds of couples, gay, stright the fetishes and strange alures others have/had to interracial couple, ect...They merely watched from the side lines, not impressed nor judgement, just nothing.  Then one day it clicks, and they realize they are in love with eachother. When for laughs they played the "kissing game", wondering why girls played this kind of game at sleepovers, and well..the rest is history. But they are still not in a sexual relationship, besdies the open public cuddling and kiss, or two.

      Surely I know this is a no go...But this(that) was my idea.

      Technically, Isidore L'Orange, Estelle Marin, Felix Oeillet, Nicole Singe, and Vincent Singe are products of incestuous marriage (all being the children of first cousins), at least in America's definition of incest. All of them are from Madame d'Aulnoy stories - Madame d'Aulnoy has several fairy tale couples who are first cousins since it's a reference to the royalty of the time period. There's also frequent cousin marriages in Middle Eastern fairy tales since it's a common practice in the Middle East. I didn't want to include any cousin couples among my OCs since I didn't think it would be accepted, but I have written stories which feature romance and even marriage between cousins.

      Out of my OCs...I'm considering making Palmira Sirene aromantic. She doesn't really have any interest in dating.

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    • NibiruMul wrote:
      Out of my OCs...I'm considering making Palmira Sirene aromantic. She doesn't really have any interest in dating.

      That would be interesting to see, but maybe I should point out that aromantic isn't the same as 'not interested in dating'? It simply means that you don't have a romantic drive.

      I think I might draw some art for Aromantic Awareness Week. That might be fun, I think!

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    • Oh, boy. To be honest, I have a good number of OCs that don't fit the rigidly straight-cis end of the spectrum. I'll try to keep this concise.

      Of my OCs, I have one aromantic asexual character, Myrtellie Sprigs. However, I made it so that she's not entirely aware of this trait- she's been raised on the ideal of True Love, and so the idea that she isn't driven to produce feelings of romantic love just doesn't entirely make sense to her, but neither does the feeling of love itself. Like our theoretical aro!Apple, the concept of falling in love is very important to her. She often tricks herself into thinking she's fallen in love because she's not certain as to what romantic love actually feels like and settles for the closest alternative.

      I've also been playing with the idea of homosexual Royals- namely, my couple Leona Beast and Jolene Beauty. They're not Royal one-hundred percent, though they still met their match in their destined love. They were made to properly counter not only each other, but also their successors in a way that still made a relationship possible.

      Additionally, I've been playing with the concept of homosexual characters who have already signed the Storybook. For example- though nothing's set in stone- Ellie's mother may be a lesbian who has a thing for the Ice-Maiden, and her husband's rather understanding of this considering that their marriage was basically arranged- and also because he, too, has his own crushes and sometimes a consort outside of marriage.

      Finally, I've been playing with the idea of trans characters. The most obvious example of this would be Dappatarius Oz and Bessavaria Oz, Ozma's kids, though I don't know to what extent they count as transsexual due to their physical sex technically matching up with their mental gender at this point- then again, they are literally transsexual when one takes their birth sexes into account. However, I've also got Feathers Duckling(whose page has yet to be created): biologically the eldest 'son' of the Duck Mother from The Ugly Duckling, who has always been taught to be the epitome of an romantically appealing and straight male. Because of her upbringing, she's still uncomfortably deep in the closet about her transgender identity.

      Also, I have a question: in narration, what pronouns would you refer to a closeted transgender character by if you didn't want the audience to know their true mental gender? Would it still be disrespectful to refer to them by their appeared sex before the reveal?

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    • Let's see which of my OCs are LGBT:

      Jonas and Valdemar are gay.

      Ursula, Liv, Wanda, and Jane are lesbian.

      Nakida is bisexual.

      Some of my notes mention that Theron Qoph has slight romantic feelings for Isidore L'Orange even though Theron considers himself straight. I'm guessing he might be bi-curious.

      As for canon characters, I ship Cerise Hood and Maddie Hatter.

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    • @Zashley: That sounds like a really good mix! Leona and Jolene are an interesting take on the tale, and I think that's really cool, since BatB is about not making assumptions to other people's relationships in a way, and since the two are queer girls, they'll probably deal with a lot of prejudice and objectification. I'll really love to see more of them, they sound really adorable!

      @Nibi: Nice range! Never really been into Cerise/Maddie, but I do like Maddie/Kitty, Lizzie/Cedar and Holly/Darling. They're really cute couples.

      On the topic of trans characters, I've always really liked the headcanon of trans guy Hopper.

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    • @Zena: The third book won my over on the Cedar/Lizzie department myself, ehe. I don't feel too strongly otherwise, but I'm pretty into Raven/Cerise. I just loved their development in The Unfairest of Them All, but I won't spoil it for the others. Also: trans Hopper = yes.

      @Zashley: On the topic of your Ugly Duckling girl, I wish I knew how to concretely help you there. Perhaps, though, there's a way to go about pronouns for her depending on the context? For example, if introducing her in a fic that starts off with another character/group, perhaps introduced her in a third person limited perspective (where it's narrated that the other character assumes she's a guy, thus male pronouns are used)? Not sure now to explain it, but I can try to give an example:

      As the boys kept on playing, Mark notice a figure around the corner: cropped hair, broad-shouldered, likely a boy around his own age it seemed. He waved at the newcomer with a smile, hoping maybe another another guy could join their No Girls Allowed club.

      ...I don't know if I really got the message across though (and the description was just at a whim, not trying to assume how Feathers looks like). Since she's passing as a cis guy you can't really avoid masculine pronouns in-character, but perhaps try to lessen them as much as you can: "the cygnet said" instead of "he/she said", "the next ugly duckling scanned the room" instead of "he/she scanned the room", making a little more use of using Feathers' name, etc.  Not sure if this will help, but maybe it will? The not-let-the-reader-know-your-OC's-true-gender-until-it's-revealed thing seems kind of iffy, though. Why exactly is hiding her gender nessecary? Is it meant to be a plot point for a fic of sorts? 

      Either way , good luck on her and your other OCs! I really like the direction you're going with Jolene and Leona, especially. More often than not, there's a tendancy to have future romance-related destinies revolve around the opposite sex. It's sadly not surprising (I kinda doubt that Mattel would otherwise, sigh), and it's a nice change from seeing gay and lesbian royalty (regardless of alignment) being forced into a destiny with a love interest that's of the opposite sex. Not that it's a bad trope or something people should avoid (I'm technically-but-not-quite guilty of this, but I'll explain that in another post), it's just that it's rather refreshing to see.

      On another note, and one that isn't a response to anyone in particular: I've been replying here all this time and I've yet to bring up my own characters. :P Since there's been talk of trans characters, I may as well bring up Akito Takenaka . I'd been working on him for a while, but at first I hadn't intended on him being anything other than cis. I don't remember what exactly prompted the change but when I first considered it, I was underconfident in my ability to pull it off. At the time I thought that it'd make his situation more complicated than it needed to be, since I intended him to be fine with his story and only being worried about losing his earthly memories. My conscern was that making him AFAB, female-assigned at birth, would rule him out as more of a rebel.

      But no matter how hard I tred, the thought just wouldn't go away. So eventually I gave in, and as refresher I looked back on some bookmarked articles on social/physical transitioning, among some of my other refrences. Not every trans person does this of course, but I figured that Akito would come out as a child and be someone who'd want to go forth with it, and with his adoptive parents being both wealthy and open-minded, they'd be the ones who'd support him in that area. As for school, his family basically stretched their money-pouches so he could take required princess classes in private, acquire proper rooming in the boys dorms, and basically to get permission for Akito pass as a cis male. It didn't come easily of course, and Milton isn't too happy that the "daughter" of a princess identifies as a prince, but the Headmaster tollerates the hush-money at least.

      In the end though, I'm glad that I went with Akito being transgender. It really helped to develop him further, not to mention that it works really well (and definitely fleshes out) his Royal-in-conflict alignment, especially since he's worried that he'll live out his tale as a princess, not as a prince. And on one last tiny note, because I've been typing a lot and I should have this reply end soon, may as well put it out there that he's also bi and otherwise confident in his sexuality.

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    • @Bug: I've only read the first book, sadly, but I'm glad that Lizzie/Cedar has material to write shipping on in the third book! Not a fan of Raven/Cerise, personally, mainly because Raven/Apple and Cerise/Daring will forever have my heart.

      I'm glad you brought up Akito! I think it was a good choice making him trans, and it definitely helps to develop his royal-rebel identity.

      On the topic of trans guys, I might as well bring up Hyacinth Flowers. He grew up thinking that he would just take after his mother's florist shop and become a fairytale backgrounder, but ended up recieving an invitation to Ever After High. Apparently, he was to take the role of the prince in The Snow Queen.

      When he got the letter, I think it would have only discovered that he was trans quite recently? So he would have found the letter really really comforting, because not only did it acknowledge that he was a guy, even though he was assigned female at birth, but it acknowledged that he was smart and worthy enough to be the prince in the Snow Queen, one of the most famous fairytales ever. So obviously, that was quite a bit of a sense of pride for him.

      I don't really know why I made him trans, I just wrote down "trans prince in the Snow Queen" down one day, and making an EAH OC out of the idea never really left me. Not only was making Hyacinth a way of making my lineup of OCs more diverse, but him being trans is actually pretty relevant to the fairytale, and this generation's adaption of it, so to speak.

      Because, in the Snow Queen, the princess doesn't want to marry, and when she's forced to marry, she only marries the prince because she admires his cleverness, not because he's rich or handsome (although I bet that the prince was probably hella handsome). The prince was seen was undesirable because of his class, not because of his personality, just as trans people are sometimes seen as undesirable even by other members of the queer community.

      In my version of the next Snow Queen generation, the next Kai is a girl, more specifically Klara Spiegel. When Hyacinth is going to be travelling around Norway, he wouldn't have the time to put on makeup in order to pass, and he would have let his hair grow long (as according to the tale). And despite wearing a binder and traditionally masculine clothes, he would still be misgendered as a girl by some people, including the Raven who talks to Gerda. 

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    • Whoops I just noticed that I posted that on anon. Oh well.

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    • I genderbend my OCs all the time. Mostly I do sons of female characters, but I also do daughters of male characters. Wanda and Regina are the daughters of two male characters - the woodcutter and the fiddler from The Wonderful Musician. Chloris Qoph really wants to be the next Alphege. (Chloris is somewhat of a tomboy, which kinda helps.) Orhan Sessiz, Joseph Souris, Cezar Porcel, Leandre Diaphane, Anatoly Tsarevich, and Yunus Djulung are all willing to take their mother's roles.

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    • Well I guess I am extremely late to the party, lol. That's what I get for disappearing. Anyway my Wonderlandian OC, Whitney Knight is Pansexual. I believe she would find someone attractive no matter how they indentify. This doesn't mean anything that walks catches her eyes. I can barely pin point a crush she has mostly because her mind if too busy inventing and she's much too scatterbrain to care about such things at the moment. 

      Canonly, I totally ship Apple/Raven! I think its cute and them being a couple but butting heads do to their views seems absolutely adorable. Also Maddie/Kitty, Lizzie/Kitty are also ships I enjoy. I also have this headcanon that Briar is bi and has maybe a slight crush on Ash. I mean besides Apple, Ashlynn has been there for Briar throughout the series. I believe that Apple is aromantic. I meanI have yet to see her with romantic feelings for anyone (even Daring). On that note even Daring had some romance recently. So I feel that Apple is aromantic. I want a poly relationship hinted in the future.

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    • Haha, it's never too late to arrive at the party again! I'm glad you're not the only one who's not falling for the pansexuals-are-attracted-to-everyone-they-meet thing. It's a tiresome trope, and averting/subverting that brings more to the table for representation!

      On the topic of polyamory, I find the whole Raven x Dexter x Cupid love triangle rather silly. Cupid's crush to me feels out of the blue, and while I like Raven/Dexter, I feel as though, with the show having a lot of unused potential, it's not played out as well as it could be. Personally I'd rather the three of them eventually become a thing. After all, Cupid's a BIG supporter of Raven botching her pledge and the Rebel cause in general. Maybe if she'd stop focusing on how Dexter would look without his glasses (which to me comes off as a pinch ableist, being a proud glasses-wearer myself).

      NibiruMul wrote:
      I genderbend my OCs all the time. Mostly I do sons of female characters, but I also do daughters of male characters. Wanda and Regina are the daughters of two male characters - the woodcutter and the fiddler from The Wonderful Musician. Chloris Qoph really wants to be the next Alphege. (Chloris is somewhat of a tomboy, which kinda helps.) Orhan SessizJoseph SourisCezar PorcelLeandre DiaphaneAnatoly Tsarevich, and Yunus Djulung are all willing to take their mother's roles.

      I don't mean to be pushy, but, I don't understand how this is related to the thread at all. A male with a female fairytale parent (and vice-versa) is MUCH different than a fairy tale parent having a transgender son/daughter (for example: someone with "male" on their birth certificate but identifies as a woman and feels uncomfortable as their gender assigned at birth, or vice-versa). It can happen both at once (like in my OC Akito's case), but unless you're also saying that your OCs listed here are trans, this is really off-topic.

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    • To add to what Jade said, not to be overly preachy, there more than two genders. So you sayinging you genderbend is most likely you're referring to the two default genders. So unless your including all genders in "genderbending" that also makes it off-topic. Sorry, if this came off as preachy! I'm trying to get out there that genderbending can be a little bit problematic and cisist. 

      @Jade Encrusted Bugs: I never thought about it but I thinking more on it I see your point. And while I knew C.A is anything but shallow worrying about how he appears with out his glasses comes across that way to me. BUT A PLOYAMORY RELATIONSHIP B/T RAVEN, CUPID AND DEXTER! YES I WANT THAT SO BAD NOW! Yes, that pansexual trope is so tired especially when its inaccurate. Well there's nothing wrong being a horndog, I'm just tired of people assuming that Pansexuals want to frickle frackle with everything they see. 

      I've been trying to give better representation to the community by starting from scratch with my OCs and making them something other than cis and/or straight. Right now I the characters I have created so far are cis but I'm trying to stir away from straight. Not that there's anything wrong with either of those things, I just feel people default their characters with those characteristics too often at times, myself included at times.

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    • I think now is as good of a time as any to bring up A Fairytale is a Metaphor, in which I have set forth on a goal to conceptualize multiple views on LGBTQIA+ rights, including people from different points on the gender spectrum, sexuality spectrum, romantic spectrum, support-to-animosity spectrum, and knowledge-to-ignorance spectrum regarding the subject. Basically, it's what I had pictured EAH as from the start: a straighforward metaphor for LGBTQIA+ issues.

      The story depicts Rebels as the ones more outwardly part of the LGBTQIA+ community(the only exception being Maddie, who is cis/straight but very supportive of the cause), while the Royals are mostly cis/straight with a good heaping of closeted exceptions(for example, the male!Lizzie and Ashlynn of the story are closeted homosexuals, Daring is secretly biromantic, Blondie may be andro-skoliosexual, and Apple is just deeply confused).

      As an example, I've conceptualized Raven as a transitioning transgirl who comes out around the start of the school year to encourage her friends to come out as well. Apple, meanwhile, finds herself with a crush on Raven, who she had once met long before Raven began expressing her female identity. Due to her upbringing in the close-minded city the story takes place in, Apple has trouble accepting this and sets forth to subtly try convincing Raven to act as a guy just so that Apple can rationalize her crush as "straight". Which fails, of course, because Raven is one-hundred-percent female.

      Surely, the fanfic has a lot of viewpoints which will follow many subtleties and extremes, though no offense is intended by any of them. (I personally see these matters as less of a spectrum and more of a bunch of wibbly-wobbly sexy-wexy stuff, so my own view doesn't really entirely match any character's.) I've actually had a lot of fun trying to see how the Royal/Rebel conflict and plotline of EAH can translate into LGBTQIA+ matters, and I've learned a lot about my own community along the way.

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    • Popping back in because I meant to reply to the thread, but alas real life had caused it to slip my mind. :v

      Anyways, @Mystical: A great point made (and yisss, another soul supporting my favorite love triangle)! I'm glad to see that you're branching out as well. While most of my OCs aren't straight (a lot of them are bi/pan/poly in terms of either romantic and/or sexual orientation, with a few that are ace and/or gay), I hadn't branched myself in terms of non-cis OCs until Akito. I need to update some of my OC pages/their artwork for retooling though, and there's a few in mind that may be altered accordingly for this. :)

      @Zashley: While I'll need to read your fic on a later date, I'm reading over your page for A Fairytale is a Metaphor and the concept in itself sounds quite ingenious! And just a thought, since I'm assuming that Cedar/Cedra hasn't shown up in the fic yet, but I'm kind of surprised that you hadn't also made her an intersex girl who was surgically assigned female at birth? You don't have to (it's a topic not as widly known subject in the quiltbag community so I wouldn't blame you for waiting until you really did your research to flesh that out), just something that came to mind.

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    • seeing this is doll still are not commen.

      They just recently came into cartoons and child bashed shows.

      There only be a few with openingly gay and what not x.x i have a felling ever after high and monster high will never be likle that but our ocs can.

      Alexandra is openly bi. Hence why in rp she didn't freak out about kissing her friend. 

      I am bi in rl. which mad it hard in rl to make friends. I am from 2 familys 1 where i have an opening lesbain aunite and another who shun the though of the adem and steve thing -x- 

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    • @Jade Encrusted Bugs: Why, thank you! That's quite an interesting take on Cedar. Now I'm kind of wishing I'd come up with some similar interpretation, and since Cedra hasn't shown up in the fic beyond a few mentionings, I'll take that suggestion into account. I do have a different character who is intersex, however, and that is Poppy(who is Holly's fraternal twin in the story, though the two look rather similar). Apple comments in the first chapter that because Poppy is intersex, Poppy was the only one given a "choice" when it comes to gender identity and expression, when that really isn't true in so many ways. Sure, Poppy's parents tried to be relatively open-minded, but it was just more convenient to have two girl twins as opposed to two opposite-gender twins, so they kind of pushed Poppy into a female role. I've actually been debating over how Poppy identifies in the story(Male? Female? Bigender, stemming from one inerpretation of how canon!Poppy became a "Roybel" according to the webisodes? Some other interpretation I haven't considered?). I'll admit that there are still a lot of aspects of this community that I'm discovering each and every day(and ones that I'm still trying to learn more about before I'm fairly confident that I can portray them with accuracy), and while representing every facet may be near to impossible, I definitely plan on doing my best.

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    • @AlexandraWonderland: Sadly, mainstream media has a long way way to go in terms of representation (both in queer representation among many other areas). The freedom people have with OCs is nice however, and your circumstances must be tough. :v I'm gray-ace and might be aromantic (still questioning though). Currently I'm living with my parents while sorting future schooling opportunities and a few personal issues. I doubt that my family would understand what being asexual/aromantic is even about.

      @Zashley. You're welcome! It was something that came to mind, especially with's Cedar's wooden state and her hinted hesitation regarding the Royal-Rebel drama in the second Ever After High book. Must have missed Poppy accidentally there, oops. If you need anymore suggestions for Poppy's gender, maybe androgyne or agender could work as well?

      Either way, it's an interesting learning proccess. Nice to know that you're really putting the effort for your fic, since everyone here has something to learn about gender identity.

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    • Oh yeah, just a note: I added more bullets/discussion points on the beginning of the thread to include queerplatonic relationships, and replaced a few catch-all terms with the quiltbag acronym. also slightly altered the thread title because reasons. Links have been added to help explain what both queerplatonic and quiltbag mean.

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    • I'm from a southern usa family so x.x no one in my  mothers side know i gay.  XD hahaha i hate it but untill i figure out my life i have to hide this fact.  the way i get away with hiding the fact im not gay is making acounts like with imvu and secound live and art site using a alt name where it could be a guy or a girls name and make sure it dosent show a gender so i have a guy avi and a girl avi 

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    • Adding this to the thread: Airmid Valerian has been agender in my mind for a while, but I've only recently added that to their page. Generally uses she/her pronouns, but likes they/their pronouns as well. I'll probably refer to them and alternate between pronouns. 

      Out of my eight/nine-ish used characters, two of them are trans (or not cis)? That's Hyacinth and Airy. Which roughly less than 25%. That's not too bad, but I do want some more trans representation in my OCs. 

      I'm tempted to make the next Fox and the next Princess in the Golden Bird as twins though. I could make the twins identical twins, and the princess transgender.

      That would mean my transgender OCs would be royalty (of some sort), which is pretty cool, I think.

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    • I'm just gonna casually hang out here with my OC's. I actually have a minority of straight characters, since I have just 3. (Andre is Pan and thus DOES NOT COUNT.) I don't have any trans OC's though. Hmm. I do have Circe and my 3rd dancing princess though.... I guess they could be the ones with alternate gender identities. (Heh, instead of the Sea Witch looking like a drag queen like in The Little Mermaid, she's ACTUALLY a trans female. Hmm. Sounds good to me.)

      As far as other questions mentioned in the original post.....

      I'm now totally all for Ace/Aro Apple. I've never really had any ships for her anyway, not even Rapple or Dapple. Maybe I subconsciously thought she would't actually be into relationships? I dunno.

      Trans Boy Hopper is my new favorite thing, actually. Also, maybe Greygender!Poppy? I could see her as sometimes wanting to feel more androgynous, rather than female, and go by gender-neutral pronouns. I dunno. Maybe just me. (Probably because she reminds me of a real-life friend who feels like that.)

      Oh! Until I created Venetia, I actually shipped RavenxDexterxCupid. I hate love triangles, so now whenever I see one I generally begin shipping them as a polyship. Why pick one when you can have both (with explicit consent), am I right? (I mean it about the consent thing though. Cheating is something I condone only in very specific circumstances.)

      I'm all for Brotp's, especially between roommates. Rapple and Blondid are probably my faves.

      As far as my OC's go, their sexualities and preferences are pretty diverse, as well as their out/acceptance levels. Anteros and Karina aren't out, Karina to anyone and Anteros to anyone but his closest friends. Arion's parents aren't known to have an opinion on the matter, but I think they're pretty chill with it. (Bigger fish to fry, and all that.) Andre's parents are out of the picture, but Rose's parents are pretty accepting of him. (Though that may be because he's mostly Rose-sexual.) Venetia has a pretty good relationship with her adoptived parents, but at the start of her tale they don't know that she's Pan, or that she's really into Cupid. They might not be so ok with that. (The ancient Greeks, while very ok with gay relationships between men, weren't so keen on girl-girl ones. I headcanon that Vini's parents reflect that. Overtime, probably with Eros's help, they'll learn to accept her.) Reginald, Karina and Tina have the worst relationships with their parents. Tina doesn't remember her real parents, having lived with Regi for as long as she can remember. Regi's parents are those people that the whole LGBTQ+ community hates: homophobic, conservative, rich entitled jerkfaces. Neither Regi nor Tina visit home a lot anymore due to their attitude; they've basically disowned them before they could be disowned. Karina's mother is also one of these people, hence why Karina tries her very best to push down any attraction she has towards anyone her mom doesn't approve of, including girls. (It's a "Parent notice me!" thing, only instead of the son wishing for his father's approval, it's a daughter wanting her mom's approval. ....Man why are my fave characters always so angsty?!?!) So instead she actually comes off as Ace. I only just realized this today, but it's actually a subversion of the "Bi's are sluts" trope that many people, even within the LGBTQ+ community, believe is true.

      Oh, also Arion is technically Demisexual Homoromantic, and not what one would consider a "true" (note the quotes) gay. He's still hella gay though, just minus the immediate physical attraction part. He'll think certain boys are cute, but not necessarily "sexy."

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    • Good thread. 

      Regarding canon characters:

      1. They're all gay. But some of fave headcanons are: Aro & Bi Faybelle. Ace & Lesbian Apple. Aro & Ace Maddie. Demiromantic & Bi Duchess. Lesbian Kitty. Pan Briar.

      2. My fave ships are Kitty/Lizzie, Darling/Rosabella & Apple/Raven.

      3. I like Trans Girl Darling & Agender Faybelle. 

      4. I've been liking the idea of Briar/Melody/Justine & I also like Wonderland Girls Ship.

      Regarding My OC: (Tfw only 1 oc)

      1. Lucia is Agender, Ace, & Panromantic. I feel like it doesn't affect Lucia's story so she ain't worried abt it in that regard.

      2. Lucia's open abt being Agender. My idea was that the moon doesn't have a gender but is viewed as pretty feminine so that's was a major reason I decided Lucia is Agender and uses (she/her) pronouns. Also because she's rlly self-insert for me LOL. Lucia would be open abt being Ace & Panro as well, I feel like she's really proud?? of these things. 

      3. Lucia's Mom and Grandmother both know and are supportive. They're both Agender as well. 

      4. Lucia/Nami. They are so cute and gay. :')

      5. Lucia's really accepting so she's def supportive of the LGBT+ community. 

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    • In terms of canon characters, I headcanon Hopper, Dexter, Darling and Lizzie as trans.

      I love the idea of aromanic pansexual Cupid, and of lesbian Darling. I like the idea that Darling is gay but not out of closet and it's the reason Dexter and Daring can get possessive and worried about guys flocking after her.

      Apple to me is asexual and demiromantic, only being romantically inclined towards someone when they've become close. [Rapple anyone?] And Daring is totally bisexual with a preference for girls - he hasn't quite come to terms with that though. I also think Hopper is pansexual. In the opening he gets flustered around Dexter and turns into a frog, something he generally only really does around people he considers attractive. 

      I don't have many OCs on the wiki yet so I don't have much to add here. Opaline is bisexual and it doesn't concern her too much. For her, it's just a fact. Star is pansexual panromantic but has very little interest in dating someone at the moment - it's irrelevant for her destiny and near future, so she wants nothing to do with it (for the mean time).

      The main trope I wish would be gone is the idea that asexuals are either really childish or really disinterested and cold. There seems to be no inbetween. Furthermore, as an aromantic person, I'd also love to see more aromantic people who aren't also ace. I totally get asexuality and aromantic often go together, but the two can be seperate. 

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    • /falls into the Ace trope with characters. ^^; Actually I only have the one Ace character, who is kind of childish, but that's not because of her orientation; it's because of her story and personality as a whole as the next Tinkerbell. I guess Karina tries to epitamize that ace's are disinterested and cold, because she's actually trying to come off as Ace to hide her bisexuality. I know that aro and ace don't have to go hand-in-hand, I just haven't made a character to reflect that yet. (Might make Circe aro but not ace; feels like it would fit her well.)

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    • A FANDOM user
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